Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Обсуждение гармошек и того что и как с ними делать.
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BwB
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Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение BwB » Чт окт 24, 2013 12:19 pm

Очень интересная и полезная информация, на мой взгляд. 8)
http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/boa ... 456133.htm
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение George_M » Чт окт 24, 2013 3:50 pm

не открывает ссылку
................пыво, дефки, рокенроль!..............
валвекастеров паяльщик, и отвёрток командир...
Это вы меня ещё с плохой стороны не видели.
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POLZIC
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение POLZIC » Чт окт 24, 2013 3:58 pm

и не откроет тем кто из россии , кто то поднасрал на форуме там
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dmitrysbor
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение dmitrysbor » Чт окт 24, 2013 4:09 pm

у Гассова лоу-кост хоcтинг у интернет провайдера - они просто блокируют адреса из России и Китая в качестве борьбы со спамом (да да вот так дёшево и сердито)

Предполагается,
что Украина спама не шлёт - видимо имеет скидку, пока не вступит в евро-торговые соглашения ;)
У меня нет времени на людей, которые меня ненавидят.
Я трачу его на тех, кого люблю.
Обо мне
http://worldofharmonica.blogspot.ru/201 ... asyev.html
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http://vk.com/doc10586297_423855671?has ... ca7ef8078a
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение LeVitaN » Чт окт 24, 2013 4:17 pm

ага
только через анонимайзер типа хайдми дот ру )))
no harm in... harp!
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение POLZIC » Чт окт 24, 2013 6:04 pm

самый простой вариант masksurf ,быстро просто работает
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение Zawuza » Чт окт 24, 2013 9:50 pm

А я открыл :-)
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение LeVitaN » Чт окт 24, 2013 11:09 pm

научи как )
no harm in... harp!
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение Zawuza » Чт окт 24, 2013 11:15 pm

Я просто в Германии. А кому интересно, скидываю текст (лишь начало дискуссии)
 спойлер
I've been trying to jam along with his greatest hits. I am finding that most his bottom end playing works with lip pursing...same with the middle octave for the most part.

The TB effect is most evident with slaps in the middle of the harp and some of his chording. Is there a term for when you play a riff and then chug a rhythm part between phrases? For those out there who also do that, do you TB to accomplish it? Do you tongue switch?

I also found myself playing the 3 hole really flat to match his pitch. My harps are pretty much ET, and I am sure his three hole was -12 or more. It is enough of a difference that I feel like I am out of tune no those riffs, although he's technically the one out of pitch, I guess.
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Last Edited by HarpNinja on Oct 23, 2013 10:06 AM
Frank
3062 posts
Oct 23, 2013
9:27 AM It's a "time keeping" technique that he is famous for - Not sure if there is a term, but the purpose is to propel the rhythm and keep you and the listener in the groove and the "pocket" :)
Kingley
3218 posts
Oct 23, 2013
9:36 AM Frank is right on the money.
Little Walters harps were all tuned to 7 Limit JI. If you want to really "nail" that sound, then you'll have to use 7 Limit tuning.
Frank
3063 posts
Oct 23, 2013
9:55 AM Walter also masterfully mixes major and minor in ways that are unique to him and part of the reason he sounds so fresh, brilliant and cool :)

The rhythmic breaths can also contribute greatly with helping the player not get winded or lose his playing power and stamina...The little space they add is also another way to keep things interesting within certain songs.
Last Edited by Frank on Oct 23, 2013 10:05 AM
HarpNinja
3539 posts
Oct 23, 2013
10:09 AM I edited my OP as I was curious as to how some people approach said rhythm thing.

Regarding temperament, I realize he played 7LI, how that related to 19LI, and how they both compare to the current Hohner MB compromise.

7LI is just too flat for my taste - especially for melody playing or non-blues stuff. The Crossover compromise is something I use, but I do sometimes tune to the MS compromise.
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barbequebob
2355 posts
Oct 23, 2013
10:20 AM Except for harps that were solo tuned, like the predecessor of the 364S (which were the Marine Band Soloist/School Band model), all diatonics that were being made by Hohner until they introduced the Golden Melody in 1974, were all tuned to 7 Limit Just Intonation, which Kingley correctly states.

He did mix major and minor but that was very common with both big band jazz/jump blues horns and many jump blues guitar players like T-Bone Walker/Bill Jennings/Tiny Grimes or jazzman Charlie Christian used back then.

If you're gonna really get into a more traditional blues sound, including what both Walters and Sonny Boys did, you need to ditch using ET tuned harps and not only will it help for the single notes, but also the chording and double stops as well.

When I started in the early 70's, this was the same tuning being used on diatonics back then as well. Most of the stuff he played can be done quite easily with either method, tho in some tunes, LP may work better.

Just remember, with 7LJI, blow 2/5/8 is tuned 14 cents flat, blow 3/6/9 is tuned 2 cents sharp, draw 1/4/8 are tuned 2 cents sharp, holes 3/7 are tuned 12 cents flat, holes 4/8 draw are tuned 4 cents sharp, holes 5/9 draw are tuned 29 cents flat, and holes 6/10 draw are tuned 6 cents sharp.

If you're gonna do the BW stuff, as well as both Sonny Boys, pre-'85 Cotton, Paul Butterfield, or any of the older black harp masters, do NOT use an ET tuned harp and use one tuned to 7LJI and everything will become a lot easier.

An alternative is 19LJI, but you'll notice a big difference when you play 5 & 9 draw immediately.

The thing you gotta remember about using 7LJI is that when play 5 & 9 draw too hard, instead of being 29 cents flat (tho some charts have shown that to be anywhere from 27 to 32 cents flat, so that means there's a variable here and you really need to use your ears carefully in the tuning process), you'll wind up closer to 49 cents flat and the average player doesn't have any real breath control at all to stop themselves from doing that.

It may be technically flat when based everything being ET tuned, but one also needs to remember that if you were a guitar or horn player, you're seldom going to hit every note exactly ET and their technique at times is not unlike bending on harmonicas and there's going to be plenty of stuff not ET and since LW was heavily influenced by horns, horns can easily adjust to going bsck and forth between ET ad any other tuning.

BTW, a blue note is listed as a note 1/2 step flat, when compared to the note when played in a major scale, but that was an explanation that made sense because until the 70's, when some keyboard instruments were set up for "note bending," and sheet music was written mainly for piano, an a real blue note is actually not 1/2 step flat, but in fact, based on ET tuning, in reality, it's 50 cents flat and here's where a horn, guitar or harmonicas are actually better able to get that real blue note than a piano does.

Hope this helps.
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Barbeque Bob Maglinte
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CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Oct 23, 2013 10:21 AM
chromaticblues
1486 posts
Oct 23, 2013
11:19 AM One of the things he (and others from that period) did was play a TB slap on the blow 3 in the flow of the song between riffs. Not as loud as the riff before or after.
Clarifying what BQBob said. 1,4 and 8 draw 4 cents are sharp. I like to put the 5 and 9 draw at 14 cents sharp. That just sounds right to me. I know mathmatically it doesn't fit into any formula, but I like it.
Hohner actually had tuned the 5 and 9 draw at 32 cents flat and 24 cents flat before the changes in the 1990's.
HarpNinja
3540 posts
Oct 23, 2013
11:55 AM Thanks for the temperament info, but I am more concerned about the rhythm technique and ways to approach it. I thought it might have a technical name I could google or something.

Dennis Gruenling showed me how to do it at SPAH '10, and I got the hang of it, but then didn't practice it enough to embed it in my playing. Now, I am trying to do that and can't remember how.

I *think* he was tongue switching and chugging from the left side of his mouth. I am not sure if that's how most do it or not. I have a mental block nailing the timing or something. It is easier for me to emulate that from LP, but I don't get the slap effect. I can fudge it, but not nail it.

I can solo vamp, though, where it is more of coming back to a chugging pattern. I just can't do the quick accents or whatever they are.


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barbequebob
2356 posts
Oct 23, 2013
12:05 PM Get into more of the jump blues stuff that's primarily horn oriented or some of the jump blues guitar stuff and really take more time with nailing the groove, and avoid playing ahead of the beat, which is fine for rock, but bad news for playing blues.

Much of what he plays is played softer than you might think he's doing and it's almost like ghost notes. Another thing is that he isn't tight cupped 24/7 and often there are things combined with the way he's using his hands, be it open hand or even opening 1 or 2 fingers, manipulating the embouchure (something most players never learn to do). It's not unlike the way horn players do things as what he was doing is adapting sax stuff to harp.

He never shakes his head when he plays warbles, just like BW did.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение dmitrysbor » Пт окт 25, 2013 12:00 am

ну этта ... смотря в чьи очи видно интересно.
У меня нет времени на людей, которые меня ненавидят.
Я трачу его на тех, кого люблю.
Обо мне
http://worldofharmonica.blogspot.ru/201 ... asyev.html
Жульманы
http://vk.com/doc10586297_423855671?has ... ca7ef8078a
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение BwB » Пт окт 25, 2013 9:50 am

ну про саксофоны тут нету, но есть интересные штуки про настройку и бя
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dmitrysbor
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение dmitrysbor » Пт окт 25, 2013 10:04 am

и слава богу -
есть где почитать про саксофоны, кроме местечкового американского форума ;)
У меня нет времени на людей, которые меня ненавидят.
Я трачу его на тех, кого люблю.
Обо мне
http://worldofharmonica.blogspot.ru/201 ... asyev.html
Жульманы
http://vk.com/doc10586297_423855671?has ... ca7ef8078a
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BwB
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение BwB » Пт окт 25, 2013 11:16 am

на местечковом американском форуме про саксофоны?
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение dmitrysbor » Пт окт 25, 2013 11:30 am

ладно не бери в голову,
лучше напиши что из этого поста c форума Гассова стало для тебя полезно.
У меня нет времени на людей, которые меня ненавидят.
Я трачу его на тех, кого люблю.
Обо мне
http://worldofharmonica.blogspot.ru/201 ... asyev.html
Жульманы
http://vk.com/doc10586297_423855671?has ... ca7ef8078a
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BwB
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение BwB » Пт окт 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Вот эот другой разговор!
Ну во-первых, я никогда не придавал этому значения и не уделял должно внимания, но там идет речь о настройке тех, старых гармошек, 7 Limit JI и похоже это имело значение для старого, классического, звучания блюза и гармошки.
Except for harps that were solo tuned, like the predecessor of the 364S (which were the Marine Band Soloist/School Band model), all diatonics that were being made by Hohner until they introduced the Golden Melody in 1974, were all tuned to 7 Limit Just Intonation, which Kingley correctly states.
If you're gonna do the BW stuff, as well as both Sonny Boys, pre-'85 Cotton, Paul Butterfield, or any of the older black harp masters, do NOT use an ET tuned harp and use one tuned to 7LJI and everything will become a lot easier.
Потом довольно интересные рассуждения, почему Литтл Уолтер крут и настолько важен (ритмика, грув и звукоизвлечение).
Much of what he plays is played softer than you might think he's doing and it's almost like ghost notes. Another thing is that he isn't tight cupped 24/7 and often there are things combined with the way he's using his hands, be it open hand or even opening 1 or 2 fingers, manipulating the embouchure (something most players never learn to do). It's not unlike the way horn players do things as what he was doing is adapting sax stuff to harp.

Плюс опять же про БЯ возможно кому-то тоже могут быть полезны рассуждения и видео Барретта довольно просто и наглядное. Плюс видео, на которых видны преимущества БЯ при игре блюза, например.
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Re: Очень полезный топик на гассовском форуме

Сообщение Mike_Shock » Сб ноя 30, 2013 7:33 am

Описание "7 Limit Just Intonation" (там же): "Just remember, with 7LJI, blow 2/5/8 is tuned 14 cents flat, blow 3/6/9 is tuned 2 cents sharp, draw 1/4/8 are tuned 2 cents sharp, holes 3/7 are tuned 12 cents flat, holes 4/8 draw are tuned 4 cents sharp, holes 5/9 draw are tuned 29 cents flat, and holes 6/10 draw are tuned 6 cents sharp."
"Дышу музыкой: через губную гармошку." (c) M. Shock"
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